NATE AND KALEY KLEMP were highschool sweethearts. Theirs was a fairytale story: they reunited as young adults and were married several years later. But what had started out perfectly, quickly became a challenge … and only a few years into marriage, they were ready to divorce. How could things have gone so wrong?! The couple had successful careers – their mindfulness and leadership expertise was in demand by high-powered companies across the globe. So how come they were being derailed by fights over fairness at home?
Nate and Kaley’s unhappiness finally pushed them to develop a new framework for their marriage – a way forward that was fair, generous, loving. A model that worked: ‘The 80/80 Marriage’.
We caught up with Nate recently to pick his brains. What is this new way of doing marriage?
GRAPEVINE: Can we start with you explaining the two existing styles of marriage that you identify in your book?
NATE: Sure! The first is what we call the 80/20 MODEL. If you think about our grandparents’ or even our parents’ marriages, one partner (usually the woman) carried the bulk of the load (80%) while their spouse contributed only about 20%.
THE 80/20 MARRIAGE:
Traditionally, the woman tended to be responsible for making the relationship work, managing things around the house, and caring for the kids – think 1950s Pleasantville. And this model of marriage still exists. But most people want something different – we want to move beyond that.
These days, another way to do marriage is what we call the 50/50 MODEL – which is an attempt to create a fairer relationship than the one our grandparents had – one that’s equal.
GRAPEVINE: Sounds like a good idea … but the 50/50 model still misses the mark, right?
NATE: Yes, it does. Equality between marriage partners is a great goal. But a basic flaw in the 50/50 model is the idea that we need to make everything perfectly FAIR. You see, to do that, I’ve got to keep an elaborate mental scorecard, where I compare all my wonderful contributions against those of my spouse … and we all know where that trap leads!
The truth is, ‘fairness’ is an illusion!
They’ve done all these psychological studies, where couples estimate how much work they’re doing compared with how much work their partner does – and the estimates are always terrible! We all have a tendency to overestimate what we do and underestimate what they do! We particularly tend to exaggerate the amount of time spent on things like childcare and housework.
At least with the 80/20 model, everybody kind of knew was their role was. There was a much better sense of who does what …
THE 50/50 MARRIAGE:
In the 50/50 model, despite its good intentions, that clarity is replaced by chaos and confusion. And that’s where lots of couples find themselves today: Who’s supposed to take the rubbish out … do the dishes … take the kids to the doctor? Who knows – and what’s fair? There are no answers anymore!
And that’s what got us thinking there had to be a better way to set up a relationship.
GRAPEVINE: So the 80/80 MODEL solves that problem? How does it work?
NATE: The basic idea of the 80/80 MODEL is that, instead of striving to contribute your 50% and doing your ‘fair share’, each partner strives to contribute 80%.
We know the maths doesn’t make any sense – I mean, love isn’t about making sense. But in trying to shift toward over-contributing (or what we call radical generosity), something amazing happens: that generosity starts to become contagious, and it leads to an upward spiral in our relationship.
GRAPEVINE: Okay – we like it! So if someone wants to take the 80/80 approach to their marriage, how should they begin?
NATE: Well, the first step is to shift our mindset. We need to become more aware of those moments when we slip out of ‘being generous’ and get caught up again in ‘being fair’.
THE 80/80 MARRIAGE:
This style of relationships is all about radical generosity (in contrast to the 50/50 model of being fair … or the old 80/20 model, that was often radically unjust, especially towards women). It’s more about doing things for the team of ‘us’. And it’s catchy: “When you win, I win! We win together!”
Once you make that mindset switch and start practising radical generosity, you’re ready to examine your boundaries and priorities.
GRAPEVINE: Boundaries and priorities? How do they help you achieve a better marriage?
NATE: We think of priorities as what you say ‘yes’ to as a couple – and boundaries as what you say ‘no’ to. Priorities are about where we want to direct our time and energy. And boundaries are just as important, because saying ‘yes’ to everything comes at the expense of your connection with each other.
There’s a belief out there right now – particularly on social media – that “You can have it all!” You can be this amazing professional who makes it to every one of your kid’s rugby games, who’s also super-fit, eats well, and meditates every day … But, realistically, you mightn’t be able to do all those things. You might have to say ‘no’ to certain things.
If couples were to grade themselves on where they’re spending their time and energy, many would think the goal was to get as many A’s as possible! But the goal is to fail more and to save your time and energy for those few things in life that you really want to prioritise.
Another thing that’s helpful is to identify your ‘shared values’. It’s common in the business world for a company to identify its values – and we think it’s really important that you and your partner do the same. It’s worth discussing: ‘In this stage of our lives [because values may change over time], what is it that we value?’ There are no right or wrong answers – what’s important is that you’re on the same page.
So what are your shared values? There are a lot of possibilities. We interviewed about 100 people about this … Some couples really valued adventure, and they left their jobs and just drove around in a van, and had all these cool, exciting experiences. Other couples really valued financial stability – and for those people, if their spouse suddenly wanted to quit their job and start living in a van, that would be very destabilising, right? Adventure isn’t a bad value – but you have to be on the same page with it.
GRAPEVINE: You dedicate a whole chapter your book to dealing with resistance – the reluctant partner. What advice can you offer someone whose partner is reluctant or unwilling to try improving their relationship?
NATE: Good question! This is a real obstacle to the 80/80 marriage for lots of couples. In many relationships, one partner is what we might call the over-contributor – because they spend more time and energy contributing to housework and to the relationship itself – and one is the under-contributor.
It’s a real challenge: how does an over-contributor bring the under-contributing partner in?
So, let’s start with what most couples do by default:
OVER? OR UNDER?
This is actually a trap Kaley and I fell into early on in our relationship. She was the over-contributor. I was the under-contributor. And we got into a pattern where Kaylee would do everything … she would resent me for doing nothing … and then she’d try to delegate a bunch of stuff for me to do!
I’d feel like she was trying to be a CEO giving me work assignments – which I didn’t appreciate. So then I’d just do nothing, and she’d resent me for doing nothing, and the cycle would go on and on.
I know from experience how problematic that cycle is!
GRAPEVINE: So, come on – tell us: how do you break out of a cycle like that?
NATE: Well, there are a couple of things you can do. One: as an over-contributing partner, you can ask yourself, Am I part of the problem? Most over-contributors would tell you that the under-contributor is the problem – but, usually, there’s some way in which the over-contributor is getting something out of the pattern. And often, it’s a feeling of control – being able to control all the logistics or the finances or something else … So you have to ask yourself how you might be sustaining the pattern.
The other thing is to ‘reveal’. Couples have often had lots of arguments and fights about this issue without ever having a more open conversation about what’s going on. So, really revealing your perspective from a place of love can help: “Hey, I want this to work so badly. And it’s really hard for me when I feel like I’m doing more all the time. I’m wondering how we could change our relationship so that we can both be partners in this.”
‘Revealing’ is a whole different way of bringing it up than, “I can’t believe you didn’t take out the rubbish yesterday – AGAIN, you jerk!” Which is the way it usually goes …
GRAPEVINE: Radical generosity is a huge shift from the fairness approach. So, how does it help the over-contributor to try and be extra generous?
NATE: The mindset shift to radical generosity can be so powerful. If you change nothing about what you’re doing, but you do it from a place of radical generosity, it goes a long way toward changing the dynamic – because it’s contagious. Your underlying intention beneath everything you do is the key – and we often miss that.
You could be contributing amazingly, but if you’re focused on being fair and feeling resentful, that’s only going to create conflict. Your partner will sense there are strings attached to your gift of service … and everybody in the family’s going to feel it.
On the other hand, if you can shift the underlying intention behind your contribution – doing things for the team of ‘us’ (as we said earlier) – your relationship can start to change in powerful ways. Your partner will likely notice that shift, and they’ll be prompted to now be more radically generous in turn … which also makes you more likely to be radically generous.
There’s an upward spiral where your generosity has this positive feedback-loop built into it. So even though it doesn’t seem like it’s in your best interest to be generous (when you’re already the one doing more), it really is worthwhile.
Imagine you’re doing the dishes for the third night in a row, and you’re upset because it’s not fair! If you stay in that fairness-mindset, you’re still doing the dishes – but as you’re doing them, there’s this negative-thought loop – there’s resentment – and you’re bathing your whole brain and body in stress hormones!
So now imagine you’re doing the dishes for the third night in a row, and you start to think, “This isn’t fair!” – but then you shift your mindset: “What if this is just a gift to us? Maybe this could be an act of radical generosity.”
WIN-WIN RELATIONSHIP:
Besides the potential for positive change in your relationship, this has huge personal benefits. If you’re able to let go of that tension and that resentment, you’re still doing the dishes, but you’re not bathing yourself in this cocktail of stress-hormones that’s undermining your health and wellbeing!
GRAPEVINE: How does the 80/80 model work when it comes to issues like money?
NATE: There are power dynamics at play in every relationship. And money is one of the things that can contribute to an imbalance of power, which then creates conflict. For example, the person who makes more money often has more sway over spending decisions – even where you go on holiday.
With the 80/80 model, you need to be considerate and intentional about creating a balance – so the partner who’s in a position of greater power doesn’t completely dictate how money is spent on major life decisions. It’s important to have conversations about this, so both partners can have a say in the way their life works.
We’re talking about our respective roles in this relationship: who takes out the rubbish … who books the dentist appointments … who schedules playdates for the kids … who manages finances. There’s an endless list of things that need to get done in life. And most couples just wing it – but that’s a trap. First of all, you might end up doing a lot of things that you’re not really interested in or not very good at… and secondly, it leads to inequality, which is the whole thing we were trying to correct with the 50/50 model.
When you’re trying to come up with a less accidental role-structure, it’s worth asking:
What do you enjoy doing?
What are you good at?
Are there things you might be able to outsource as a couple? For example, if both of you absolutely hate cleaning bathrooms and toilets, and you can afford it, one of the best investments you could make in your marriage is to hire somebody who does that as a job.
What’s going to contribute to your shared success?
Just by having these kinds of conversations, you’re ahead of most couples on the entire planet – because you’re starting to ask whether there’s a better way to do things than how you’ve been doing them by default.
Studies are showing that the average couple with kids in the U.S. spends about 35 minutes a week really communicating with each other – that’s an average of five minutes per day. If you read a book like ‘The 80/80 Marriage’ and you start having conversations like these, you’re already doubling that number! So reading books is great. But the real key is to create more moments of connection – which you do by having these conversations. And that’ll put you a long way ahead of the game!
GRAPEVINE: Speaking of ‘moments of connection’ … you write “We found that there are two key steps for finding your way back to amazing sex.” What are those steps, and how does following the 80/80 model affect your intimate relationship?
NATE: Well, there are two pieces to that puzzle. The first is to work on solving the life problems that get in the way of better intimacy. Sex problems are mostly life problems that show up with sex – because sex is basically just a mirror for what’s happening in the rest of your life. There’s really no separation between the resentment you might experience in line at the grocery store and the resentment you might
experience in intimacy with your partner. They’re connected.
SEX PROBLEMS:
If there’s unfairness around housework, or parenting, or any other resentment, that emotion is going to show up in all places – and particularly in the bedroom! So, the first thing is to identify the life problems that we could solve – or at least relieve – by shifting to an 80/80 mindset.
The second piece of the puzzle is this: some sex-related problems are more tactical – which also come down to issues of fairness and generosity (or a lack thereof). There’s a technical term in the field called sexual drive discrepancy – SDD – which is just a fancy way of saying one partner has a higher sex-drive than the other. This is common for most couples. And, to solve a problem like that, you can’t just say, “You should have sex more” or “You should have sex less” – because one partner loses, basically.
So maybe, instead, there’s room here for radical generosity – even when it comes to sex itself! The closer partners are willing to move toward the other person, the better able they’ll be to find some middle ground.
FIVE ESSENTIAL HABITS OF THE 80/80 MARRIAGE
Habit 1: Creating Space for Connection
Couples often feel they have no time and no space. One way to create space is to build a daily habit of checking in with each other. Another way is some sort of weekly ritual, like a date-night or a hike together. You could also think about longer-term things, like going on a trip or a roadie together every six months or every year. So those are all ways to create more space together.
Habit 2: The Call-and-Response of Radical Generosity
This mindset of radical generosity is a key habit for all the reasons we’ve described so far. The two primary things to focus on are contribution and appreciation. Could you aim to have one act of contribution toward your spouse every day? It doesn’t have to be huge: it could be making them a coffee or writing I love you on a sticky-note. And then, every day, is there some specific thing you can appreciate your partner for?
Habit 3: Reveal Issues As They Arise
We talked about this one earlier, but the basic idea here is that you’re revealing your full experience to your partner – both the good and the bad (all those moments when you’re disconnected, or you’re in conflict) – from a place of love.
Habit 4: The Shared-Success Check-in
This is basically a time each week where you can check in with each other about how things are going. Kaley and I do this – we just go through the calendar for the next week to check in about drop-offs and pick-ups for our daughter … meal planning and grocery shopping – just getting those logistics handled so you can spend more time doing fun stuff.
Habit 5: Create Space from Digital Distractions
The primary barrier to connection for many couples is the devices they carry around in their pockets; so creating space from digital distractions is really powerful. It’s not easy, because most of us these days are addicted – to some degree – to these technologies. Things like kicking your phones out of your bedroom, or having a place in your house where you park your phone, can make a huge difference.
If you struggle with this, you can buy a little cage-safe for your kitchen where you can actually lock up your phones and electronic devices for a certain period so nobody can use them!
GRAPEVINE: How does showing appreciation help in an 80/80 marriage?
NATE: I think showing appreciation is so essential for couples – and it’s a vital element of radical generosity. When we’re in that default state of 50/50 fairness, we tend to see our partner through the eyes of what they’re doing wrong. Our brains have this ‘negativity bias’… we notice how our partners fall short, then follow that observation with some criticism. But when we appreciate our partner, we’re flipping that mindset on its head.
What we’re doing now is looking for things our partners are doing RIGHT … how they’re helping, being considerate, whatever – and we’re sharing that by showing appreciation. It’s another of those moves that creates that positive feedback loop.
Really, we all know the power of appreciation – how amazing it feels to feel acknowledged. And by offering that to each other, we’re creating more room for connection and generosity.
I APPRECIATE YOU:
How do we remember to do this? Well, Kaley and I have got into the habit of appreciating each other before we go to bed each night. It only takes a minute – but it lets us end the day on an ‘appreciation-high’ rather than focusing on whatever random drama might be happening in our lives.
GRAPEVINE: If we’re married to somebody who’s not naturally appreciative, is it okay to ask for appreciation?
NATE: Yeah, absolutely! It’s an important skill in any relationship because it’s easy to feel unappreciated – even in a relationship where gratitude is a habit. There’ll always be something that one partner does that goes unseen or unacknowledged. And what usually happens is the person missing the appreciation probably won’t say anything … then they might feel some resentment … then it’ll come up during their next conflict as a criticism of the other person: why they weren’t being loving or kind or whatever.
It doesn’t always feel very comfortable, but it’s best to reveal your feelings in a loving way to your partner: “Hey, I spent a lot of time … [doing whatever it was: cleaning up the house, helping our kid with maths] … and I’d love to be appreciated for that.”
And if you do it the right way, it can be really powerful, because then it becomes another moment of connection.
THE 80/80 MARRIAGE IS AVAILABLE AT ALL GOOD BOOKSELLERS. FOR MORE INFO, VISIT WWW.8080MARRIAGE.COM.
